Malaysia & Singapore Real Estate

[xinfull]

Hello all

Hope someone can advise me here.
I am a property buyer.
I signed Offer to purchase for an apartment last month with 1% earnest deposit. 7 days later, the vendor accepted.

I applied for a home loan and a lawyer was engaged to draft the S&P. During this time, the vendor was always delaying in handing over her documents Finally the S&P is ready, the lawyer has asked me to signed it and give them the remaining 9% cash with 90% covered by home loan. Since this was suppose to be a simple transaction, Buyer, Seller and bank loan are all using the same law firm.

I am ready to sign but on the same day the vendor went overseas and will not return for another month! I have yet to sign the S&P or the offer for the home loan.

Now i am wondering ....
1. What actions can i take since i believe the vendor is deliberately delaying (The unit is rented out and she is still collecting rent).
2. Who should compensate for this delay in signing the S&P?
3. Can the law firm take action against the vendor for this delay?
4. Is there such a thing as a deadline for vendor to co-operate and sign the S&P?

I am pretty frustrated since i am the victim here but there seems to be no recourse. Any advice? Thank you.

[Bozo!]

I think your outlay so far has been only the 1% right? the remaining 9% is still with your lawyer since the S&P has not been signed yet.

imo (and i'm not a lawyer), i would=>

1. Talk to your lawyer. Your lawyer represents you and shld advise you accordingly. Whether the Vendor uses your lawyer or not, shld not be an issue because the bulk of the legal fees are borne by you.

2. As far as i know, there's no such thing as compensating the delay in S&P. Since you have been screwed over by the vendor (and the details of this should be the option agreement that you signed with the vendor, assuming you signed something), you can abort the S&P tho and claim back the earnest deposit paid. All other liquidated damages only apply after the S&P has been signed and you're not at that stage yet.

3. Yes you can but i think this would be costly. You will have paid earnest deposit (which you can claim back), portion of legal fees (for your lawyer) for the aborted S&P. Assuming you used an agent, the 1% earnest deposit will be with the agent and you can get the money back from them. Best case scenario is just the lost legal fees to come up with the S&P.

4. The deadline is on the option to purchase you signed (assuming you signed something). With an agency, usually this is 14days, with another 14 days allocated should there be perceived delays or difficulties in getting the S&P ready in 14days.
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Sleeping body...

[xinfull]

Thank you Bozo for your reply.

The situation has taken a new twist....

1. I signed the option with 1% paid to the agent. This agent liased with another agent. I obtained a loan and had a lawyer draft the SPA. I signed the SPA and loan agreement and paid 9% to my lawyer. I also paid RM1k as partial payment of fees to my lawyer. My bank also opened a loan account and issued a chequebook.

2. When the vendor failed to turn up, we tried to track her down. Apparently the owner is an air stewardess and she has flown off in her line of duty and will not return for a month. We then discovered that the owner of the house and the person who signed the option to purchase were different people! Apparently the owner's agent had falsely made the declaration that he is the legal owner of the said property and signed on her behalf.

3. Now my lawyer claim that the owner has no legal obligation since the owner has not signed the SPA and did not sign the option. In the option, it is stated that should the vendor fail to execute the SPA within 21 working days, the earnest deposit must be refunded together with a sum equivalent to the earnest deposit as liquidated damages.

Now the questions are

4. What criminal actions can be taken against that errant agent that signed the option claiming to be the legal owner of the property? What is he liable for?

5. Is my lawyer at fault to prepare the SPA and get me to sign it without checking on the option to purchase document?

6. What's the best course of action for me now? The vendor acknowledges the sale but is overseas and keeps delaying. My lawyer act blur just bank in my deposit money and ask me to wait and hope for the best. She is the type of lawyer that just wants to shuffle paperwork and have nothing to do with other things and the courts. My poor agent got conned as well but she played along until this whole thing boiled over.

7. I am considering reporting the matter to the police as the first step.

Thank you in advance for any advice ....

[Bozo!]

somethings don't make sense, i.e. you got a loan without an signed S&P signed by both parties? Most of the time, the banks will only layan you if you have a stamped S&P..

i think the rest of your questions shld be answered by your lawyer, except 5. your lawyer must have prepared the S&P based on something, usually a title. Ask them what.

your case sounds tricky, and not likely to be straightforward.. since the S&P does not even remotely sound like it has gone past the initial stages, find out what the abortive charges are.. It's kinda stupid if the lawyer charges you for a full S&P if they've not done very much other than preparing the S&P.

and then speak with another lawyer on a casual basis to find out what you can do. This time, find a proper lawyer. Most of your $ is stuck with the lawyer, and the rest are with the agency. For now, you've not lost very much other than time.

my 2 cents anyway..
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Sleeping body...

[cblau]

[xinfull]

Yes very true!

The vendor is also using my lawyer. She must have co-operated by submitting her details

[Fernando Alonso F1 Champ]

bozo, the banks can issue LOF based on the option is good enuf........banks dont require SPAs to issue LOFs.......as far as i am aware.....


xinfull, v hard to go after your lawyer........he would b in no position to know the signature in that option is not the real owner punya........all he can do is bankruptcy search based on name and ic#....


the real fler at fault here is the property agent..........and the fler who falsely sign.............btw, theres no airstewardess that flies away to any destination for an ENTIRE MONTH!

this sounds dem fishy.........heres 3 things i would do if i was in your position :-

1) tell the agent to refund your 1% failing which you WILL make the police report, if this happens everything kaw tim, then walk away

if no, he dont want to pay
1) make police report
2) somehow press your loyar to enter a caveat against the property....tell him as far as u r concerned, u have signed the SPA and paid 9% to him as stakeholder.....
3) sue the agent

the 2nd part of course if really up to u, ie ....judge also how much the 1% is worth vis a vis legal action......


this is the proper action lah.......

for me the more practical part i will get some ah longs to go after the agent for the 1%.............loyar semua for the 1% to me is not so worth it, unless your property is in the rm 10 million range or something.....
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"Dont change lifestyle! Change Government!!"

I mean Change the Barisan Najis govt !!!!! Dont get it wrong !

[Bozo!]

[Fernando Alonso F1 Champ]

loan letter of offer ........ the banks can issue that LOF based on just the option right ?..........




bank accoutn also fairly straightforward to open and issue cheque book...............its juat that the loan sum wont b set up until documentation completes........
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"Dont change lifestyle! Change Government!!"

I mean Change the Barisan Najis govt !!!!! Dont get it wrong !

[Bozo!]

[cblau]

[Fernando Alonso F1 Champ]

U mean our friend that has the 2 stewardess contacts ah ????? Heh




Ok lor me no expert but just a warning to xinful, I think the seller is just playing for time drag him , if he wait one more month another excuse will come, ie best is to take action now!
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"Dont change lifestyle! Change Government!!"

I mean Change the Barisan Najis govt !!!!! Dont get it wrong !

[xinfull]

Haha, Thanks to all bros here!

My actions
1. Called my agent to tell her to stop all these nonsense. My earnest deposit must be refunded or used for another property.

2. Get that errant agent to admit his fault. He must pay me liquidated damages amounting to the sum equivalent to my earnest deposit (1%), as stated in the option. We will also ask him to take on any lawyer fees for the preparation of SPA (although the question is what fees can the law firm charge since rightfully they should just inform me that the option is fraudulent and stop this transaction at that moment without proceeding with all that documentation and had me sit an hour to sign those).

3. Should the errant agent disagree, i will then have to press criminal charges for falsely declaring he is the legal owner of the said property. Whether he got the verbal consent from the owner to do so, i leave it to him to fight with the owner. Technically he is the only person who committed a crime in this whole debacle.

4. My agent is free to get me another property and we can proceed to transact using the same law firm and bank loan, since we have gone this far in dealing with each other.

then later maybe ask the stewardess out to apologise and serve me coffee, tea or ... ;-)
hope things turn out well ....

[aviator]

sorry, me not expert but trying to kay-poh abit:

"4. My agent is free to get me another property and we can proceed to transact using the same law firm and bank loan, since we have gone this far in dealing with each other.

then later maybe ask the stewardess out to apologise and serve me coffee, tea or ... ;-)
hope things turn out well .... "

imho,

2 wrongs won't make 1 right.

- we don't know the relationship among your agent; vendor's agent; vendor; "vendor II"; lawyer; banker.

- while agent/lawyer represents buyer, buyer doesn't represent agent/lawyer; in the event of mishap like this and you are victim (it's your money, time and hope), while you work out your way, have the responsible parties work out an solution for you

- buyer appointed agent/lawyer based on various factors including trust in his/her professionalism and workrate

- this is the time for them to help you think of some solutions, if can't perform, do you think you still want to go further or future dealing?

- your idea sounds compromising, but while you are ready for this alternative, it shouldn't be initiated by you. I'd demand for full refund + compensation and see how they work-out, if they fulfill 70-80% of your demand, is better still; And they will thank you for letting them go.

then you can treat them all coffee when it ended with a fair conclusion.

good luck

[xinfull]

Good point aviator! Thank you.

Yes, lawyers are professionals and paid professional fees.
My lawyer failed to ascertain there exists a valid contract between buyer and seller before drafting the SPA and got me to sign and pay the deposit and partial fees. The lawyer failed to detect the fraud.
There was no way i could detect the fraud. This is the main rationale for engaging lawyers in such transactions right??

My agent did propose that the Vendor offer me a compensation for the delay and the lawyer was keen to have me accept it. The lawyer simply wanted the SPA to be signed, however long it takes, so that what ever happened before this can be swept under the carpet.

Now, i decide to call this deal off and get all the skeletons out of the closet.
If I accept the sellers agent apology for the fraud and compensation as liquidated damages, then my lawyer is next in the line of fire.

Should i ask for compensation from lawyer?
If so, what is fair amount? She did inform me of the fraud but only after the SPA was signed and the vendor failed to appear.
If my lawyer refuses to admit fault, then should I sue my own lawyer? ;-)
sounds a bit far fetch though ....

what say u guys??
[hope my lawyer is not here in this forum ... ]

[aviator]

no problem xf, didn't and can't help much though.

I'm not a lawyer or expert in this field; only thought of what if i were in your situation.

as for compensation, i think best is get advise from a lawyer on your possible claims, prior to voicing out your points or else you'd be at weaker position- your lawyer simply will say 'no such thing' etc because this is her field, she'll know better than you, she thinks.

and she'd think she's made to believe by your agent; your agent will say he's innocent because he didn't know etc.

right now most important is to solve it/close it, and get all paid amount refunded. no one wanted this to be happened (hopefully), but as an agent and lawyer, they have their responsibility and do they still dare to charge you after their incompetency in the process of acting at your best interest?

ps: or are you still interested to purchase this house, if real owner 'surface' and agree to sell?

[xinfull]

hehe aviator, u're right again

if the owner came to seal the deal, i'll be happy to forget about all this stuff since i got the deal that i agreed to.

but seems like all the people involved got played out by this owner, so too bad, i'm not going to let them waste my time, they must take responsibility now. they have to go and settle with whoever that played them out.

the bank said no problem, just give them new address and they will amend all documents. HSBC... quite professional, so far so good.

since the market didn't like suddenly shoot up, so what the hell, take this learning experience, take the compensation, just get another property. Plenty to choose from ...

[xinfull]

OK so to contunue this story ... and thanks for reading so far

the seller's agent (the one who fradulently signed on owner's behalf) had to pay compensation of 1% as indicated in the option to purchase.
in the end, he did not bother to meet me.
my agent had to pick up the cheque and then meet me to pass it to me.
so i got back my 1% earnest deposit + 1% compensation.

the lawyer initially wanted to charge me RM700 for cancellation fee (this is for some title search fee that they had to pay). After resisting and negotiating, they got back to me that they will give me a full refund and ask the seller to bear the cancellation cost (the seller is also their client, and she is at fault anyway). I didnt probe too much, I got back my money so I just walked off. they are also my loan lawyer and i also signed a document to cancel that loan.

Now the bank called me and they will put this loan on hold. But they said that they may not be able to offer me the same rates as before i.e. BLR - x% rate may be reduced by as much as 0.7% !! and if i decide not to take a loan from them, i may have to pay lawyer fees!

so the fact is
1. the bank got me to sign the loan offer and opened a loan account for me at the time i signed the SPA but before the seller signed.

2. the SPA was subsequently cancelled since no show from seller, I am stuck with this bank and will have to pay lawyer fees if i don take a loan from them (this package is zero cost package).

3. When i change property address, it is considered a new loan and now they are suggesting to alter the loan rates by as much as 0.7% in their favour. they will confirm with me whether i get to keep my previous loan rates later (after CNY).

after settling with the agents and lawyer, now this is a new headache for me ... sigh

[Fernando Alonso F1 Champ]

i think u can tell the bank the same thing as the loyar........try write officially to them, the cancellation of the property had nothing to do with u, its the seller........


if u have something in black and white from the seller , sellers agent or something, attach it......
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"Dont change lifestyle! Change Government!!"

I mean Change the Barisan Najis govt !!!!! Dont get it wrong !

[aviator]

Good to hear the latest update on lawyer/agent.

For bank, don't know if this works:

1) get lawyer to write an official memo stating that SPA lapsed due to fraud case or how he/she named it

2) pass to bank with 2 options:
A) cancel the loan w/o paying legal fees- because the process is not done accurately in the first place, you can't be hold 100% liability
B) if want to keep you as customer, then must follow old rates (but i think not very likely, or else, bonus for you; if can get anything between 0 - 0.7% also better still right?)

* in the midst of high competition, high fraud case and maybe uncertain market; if your finance score is good, bank will want to keep you.

Those T&C/legal fees/process fees/admin fees being stated are to scare away some problematic customers who suka suka compare here and there, change this and that; but i think its case by case, and since yours are genuine, supported by lawyer's memo; should be able to nego.

Good luck, happy CNY!